Redefining Menstrual Health and Sustainability with Zizipho Ntobongwana of Sheba Feminine

We're back for a new season! Are you ready to start the conversation with some insights on how we think about and how we speak more openly about menstrual health?

Leading the charge shift attitudes in South Africa is Zizipho Ntobongwana, the dynamic founder of Sheba Feminine. Our conversation sheds light on the importance of organic and biodegradable products and we discuss her mission to reframe menstrual health. We get into the details of her entrepreneurial journey - from fair competition in the personal hygiene industry, to Decolonizing Sustainability, and fostering a community that takes pride in their bodies and the products they use.

Zizipho also introduces us to Sheba Feminine's innovative 'Pay for a Pal's Pads' program and the need for intergenerational dialogue to remove the stigma surrounding menstruation and women's sexual health. We navigate the difficulties of pricing high-quality menstrual products, the diverse range of products Sheba Feminine offers, and the societal change in attitude towards these topics.

Zizipho eloquently breaks down the Westernized perception of sustainability and the urgency to reconnect with our ancestral practices. In the conversation, you'll also hear how Sheba Feminine is challenging the norm, as well as how they are tackling the intergenerational gap between educators and school pupils. We wrap up the conversation up with Zizi's personal story of overcoming societal taboos and her mission to empower women through her amazing brand.

So, be sure not to miss it!

LINKS AND MENTIONS

Indlela Yethu - a short film produced by Zizipho for the sustainable Cape Town brand, Rewoven 

Transcript

Kutloano Skosana: 0:01

Hello and welcome to Shades and Lears. I'm your host, yfranos Kroosana-Rigy, and today we are talking menstrual health. My guest is Zizi Portn-Devonguana, who founded Shiba Feminine, a brand that creates organic and biodegradable menstrual products from her home country, south Africa. This episode is all about the places where curiosity and rabbit holes can lead you. It's also about changing attitudes and, most importantly, trusting your journey. Zizi Portn and her team are not only making products, but also educating and advocating for people who menstruate. They work with non-profit organisations, lead workshops at no-fee schools in Johannesburg and Cape Town, where they cover issues such as sexual health, consent and, most importantly, post-conversations that are inclusive of poids. We talk about fair competition, the personal hygiene industry and decolonising sustainability. We had loads of fun, too, plenty of giggles, and exchanged some valuable insights about various business and life topics. Without further ado, here is Zizi Portn-Devonguana.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 1:18

So my name is Zizi Portn-Devonguana and my company is Shiba Feminine, so we call ourselves the new era of menstruation. We really want to create products that are not only organic and vitagradable but that really care about the environments, that really care about the community. Yeah, I think we're very passionate about the work that we do and, yeah, we want to just make sure that people that menstruate can just take pride in their bodies and also just take pride in the products that they're using and not feel like they have to worry about leaks or stress about certain smells. That's what we're in the business of doing making sure that you have a comfortable period.

Kutloano Skosana: 1:59

Wonderful. So what led you to start this company? Where did the idea come from and how did you determine that? Yes, this is what I need to be doing.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 2:11

So the first time I thought around the idea of the company itself, it was a few months after I had been sitting on the toilet. You know a period poo. I had my period poo. Oh my gosh, these are the things that happen.

Kutloano Skosana: 2:27

I know, I know.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 2:29

So I'm sitting on the toilet and I basically I didn't have my phone on me, and so I picked up the box of tampons that I was using at the time and I noticed that they didn't have an ingredient label on them. So for me that was like okay, but I didn't know if they should have had one, or what was the story that then just started this rabbit hole? I guess, down like the education that I wanted to find out in terms of like, okay, should menstrual products have ingredient labels? The ones that don't? Why don't they have ingredient labels? Who is behind the creation and the manufacturing of these products? And then, obviously, this also starts the discourse of the period, sort of ads that I've seen are not really my lived experience. So, actually, what is going on in the space? So, if we speak about the feminine hygiene space, who are the biggest players? How do they influence that space, and how do we find ourselves where we are today, where we aren't represented as people that menstruate?

Kutloano Skosana: 3:27

Oh well, that's amazing. So an ingredient rabbit hole, Exactly.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 3:34

I was wondering if I'm putting you into my vagina. What is happening here?

Kutloano Skosana: 3:38

Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. What were some of the other concerns that you had? You didn't want to put, of course, poisons in your body, but what were your other concerns in terms of the actual product itself?

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 3:50

I think that, like there was no transparency, I guess, in the whole industry. So it wasn't just about the product for me, it was about the industry as a whole. So, like I'm saying, like who are the big players? But more than that, who are they to create products for us? Because what I found is that a lot of the people that are creators of these products are actually people that don't menstruate themselves, so a lot of them have no idea what the experience is, and that's why also, we found that, even on the marketing teams, that's why it looks the way that it does when they're trying to advertise their products. So I think for me those are the two like biggest things, two biggest things.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 4:27

And then, obviously, I then realized and I'm sure you've seen the discourse around you know the sending of period products to Africa that aren't the same quality as the ones that are being made.

Kutloano Skosana: 4:40

Yeah.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 4:40

Yeah, and then I was like who gets to decide who gets what, and why isn't that? We're like getting these like really crappy products. What's happening here?

Kutloano Skosana: 4:51

Right, right. So how do you move from finding all of this out to actually Making the product?

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 5:00

Honestly, it wasn't even my intention. I won't even lie. I know people always like you know, you must move with the intention. I did not.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 5:08

I did not move with any intention. For me, honestly, when I created, like, the products, it was just about OK, cool, you know, for me and my friends, for me and the people that are around me, I don't want you guys to be using these products, because now I know the truth. So, yeah, I really did not do it intentionally. I think it sort of just happened. It sort of happened to me and then I found myself in that space and I was like, oh damn, how did I get here? But yeah, I think because I was studying decolonial theory at the time, so like it was something that I was passionate about. So I sort of took it in my stride. I said, ok, cool, this is what I'm doing. I'm not really expecting much from it, I'm just doing it because this is something that I feel like I'm now becoming passionate about because of the things that I'm learning. And how did you?

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 5:59

come up with the name. So how did I come up with the name? So this is actually also quite funny, because a lot of people don't know if I'm saying Sheba or if I'm saying Sheba. So am I saying Sheba?

Kutloano Skosana: 6:12

I mean that's a sub-abrogate, but I'm like, oh Sheba, what happened in there?

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 6:17

I love that. Come on, I love that. Ok, basically, the language just came out. The intention was for it to be about the queen of Sheba, just like the wisdom, her being Magheda and just being this sort of person. So that's what the intention was, but then I guess there was this whole play on the word like Sheba. That worked out really well and I guess in this life context even more so. So even that I took my stride, like I say, there was no intention.

Kutloano Skosana: 6:54

I mean, the best solutions are sometimes things that you stumble on and things that just happen, and that's amazing.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 7:01

I'm worried that it's happening too much now.

Kutloano Skosana: 7:05

You're being guided, you're being led Exactly. I love that I receive that. So who did you work with initially to get this out there and to a wider audience?

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 7:18

So it was literally just my community, the people that I knew. It was the people that I consider my sisters, the people that I consider my friends, the people around me. I know it's the worst advice that you could ever give Please do not do this. Please, always, always, invest in marketing. But I did not invest in any marketing in the beginning, so the people that were the ones that were the driving force for the product and getting it out, there were the people around me. It was friends, that was family and I guess, slowly then things started picking up.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 7:48

Word of mouth really is the guiding light for marketing and then, yes, everything started picking up and more people started, oh OK, yes, I've heard about the brand, but you know I haven't tried it. Then we came up with samples. It was just. Yeah, I think it was a very slow process, but we are getting there.

Kutloano Skosana: 8:06

So friends and family, fantastic. And in terms of sourcing the materials that go into the products, how? Did that process work out.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 8:16

The most difficult process of my life. I think I never yeah I think I never actually really thought about how difficult it would be. I just knew what I wanted to do. And so when you then start to have the conversations with people oh where can I get this, where can I get this? People are really cagey about their information, which is understandable because obviously they've worked really hard to build those relationships for themselves and to find those things out.

Kutloano Skosana: 8:43

So I have a different theory about that, but we'll get there.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 8:47

I love it. You need to unpack that. So yeah, I mean from conceptualization to actually having a product in my hand. It probably took me about like it was over a year. It was a really long time. It was a really long time, because people are gatekeeping and especially a space like this which is quite monopolized with the brands that we know that are on the shelf. No one really wants any new players in there, especially not new players. We're now saying that they're coming with organic and biodegradable. Why are you doing that?

Kutloano Skosana: 9:20

Right.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 9:21

Let us know what we want to do, but please unpack, unpack.

Kutloano Skosana: 9:27

No, I understand if you don't. No, I don't understand. So if you have a supplier, we want them to remain in business. So the more people that use that supplier, the better your chances of staying in business. So I think the whole idea of keeping things to yourself is actually the thing that leads to closing of sectors and manufacturers, et cetera.

Kutloano Skosana: 9:57

So it's better if no one can ever do what you do the way that you do it, and that is that. So keeping your suppliers a secret is not very generous and it doesn't lead to any positive results.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 10:11

That's my theory.

Kutloano Skosana: 10:12

I could be wrong, but in a competitive context of capitalism. That's the approach.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 10:21

I don't think you're wrong at all and, like you say, I think that competition is really important in this sort of capitalist system that we're all in. When you don't have competition, that's what then happens. When you have these monopolies, I think they can do whatever they want to do and we're just going to accept it as people that are consumers. No, we will not.

Kutloano Skosana: 10:42

So how has the Shiba feminine brand been received by South African women and people who menstruate?

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 10:49

I think that it's taken a lot of education, because things like an ingredient label are things that are regulated, that you should have on a product. So things like, ok, do you know that there's plastic in your product? Are things that people know. So it's been quite slow because you have this twofold sort of process that you have to go through, where you first need to educate and say, ok, cool, well, actually, the products that we are currently using, the generic products that are on the shelves, this is what it looks like, this is what they do to you, your body, and then this is what they do to the environment and this is how we can do better. So I think it has been quite difficult and it's been quite slow, but the people that have tried the product will always come back, unless it's, obviously, menstrual cup, which you can use for years, so you don't have to come back.

Kutloano Skosana: 11:35

Right.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 11:36

But yeah, I think that. But I mean even our menstrual cups the people that have tried them they've said you know these are their favorite that are currently on the market. So I think we've really tried hard to get products that are high quality, that we know that are. You're not going to want to change brands after trying our brand, like that's what we strive for, that you want to try, you're never going to go to anything else.

Kutloano Skosana: 12:02

So you've got the organic and good for you, good for the environment as one of your strengths. And then what about price point? Because that's always the challenge with the menstrual product.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 12:16

So I think that's something that we've. You know it's been quite difficult. I'm getting the right price point because I think you know, when people are using generic materials, when they're using plastic, when they're using rayon, when they're using products that aren't actually like organic cotton or biodegradable, that means that they can make the product much cheaper. So for us it's been really difficult to try and make a product that is that high quality but still, you know, not have it become like up priced by the other products. So we are really trying to keep it in the middle. We're not trying to do like really expensive, we're trying to keep it in the middle where we feel like this is a fair price point for what you're getting and also for all of the manufacturing, all of the processing and the production that's involved.

Kutloano Skosana: 13:04

Right. And what is in your range of products? You said menstrual cups, I assume tampons. Do you have other menstrual products there?

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 13:14

Tampons are correct. So we have menstrual pads. So we have our day pads and our night pads, and then we have our tampons. We have our three different absorbance of tampons, which are, you know, your regular, your super, your super plus. And then we have your panty liners, and then we have our wet wipes. We have these bamboo, like ultra software types. We have two different sizes of those. And then we have our menstrual cups, where we also have, you know, our Ketaka coral, and then we also have our ocean blue one. So that's our full product range.

Kutloano Skosana: 13:49

Extensive, wonderful, I mean. You cover the range and that's important. You know, sometimes you want to use this, sometimes you want to use that, depending on your flow.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 14:01

And you know what I'm exactly like that Like for some periods I use my cup and then for some periods I'm like actually no, I don't feel like using a cup, I'm using pads this time. And then you know like I change what I use all the time, just depending on how I feel.

Kutloano Skosana: 14:15

And also where you're going. You know there are some places where you don't want to be changing your menstrual cup. So, yeah, yeah, I get it, but in terms of attitude, you are speaking about something that is taboo, I know, because it was something you were never supposed to talk about, but I see that there is a really healthy and robust discussion going around. You know periods and sexual health, but I'm seeing much younger people, I would say, having these discussions. But so what's your finding as far as that goes?

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 14:52

I think that South Africa, specifically, is quite progressive in like the laws surrounding reproductive and sexual health care in general. But I mean, if I even think of you know, my first period yeah, I could speak about it, but you don't really right so, like I remember like very intimate details about like my first period, you know, being in grade six, being a boarding school. It was like the first two weeks that I'd gotten there, so I didn't really have any friends. So when my mom had left me a boarding school, she was basically just like Okay, here are your pads, you know how to use them. I sort of said yes, but I didn't really know how to use them.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 15:31

Yeah, yeah in my trunk and then I was like just left there to like try and like fend for myself and I really didn't have a clue. I did not have any idea how to use pads and I also felt so much shame in like asking you know about what I should do, etc.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 15:46

So I think I saw Africa is very much like that, where the laws are there, the regulations are there, the policies are there, but when it comes to the actual conversation, I feel like the pads are like in the trunk. No one is coming and saying Okay, this is how you do it. The education is hard to find out.

Kutloano Skosana: 16:02

Yeah yeah, yeah.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 16:05

Like basically, and I mean, yeah, when I was in grade six, really Google wasn't even a thing. Okay, you had to go to like computer room and maybe there were like two computers in the computer room. So if you wanted to search for how to use pads, somebody was going to find out, somebody was embarrassing, so I think, yeah, I think there really should be a change in the stigma surrounding the administration, but there isn't really.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 16:32

And then, like you say, I think, like the kids are all right, the kids are doing the things, the kids are there, but the shame most of the time we find that the shame comes from teachers, it comes from parents, it comes from, like, the older generations. So even you know, in the workshops that we have, we always say we don't leave the teachers behind, we don't leave the parents behind, because those are the ones that actually perpetuate the stigmas in those spaces. So when the children that do menstruate now want to go and ask for pads, want to go ask for, you know, tampons, the people that are making fun of them are the boys, and then the ones that are shaming them with how much pads they're using are the teachers. And then at home they're not having those conversations with their parents. So it's just the kids are all right, but I think that there's a lot of education that needs to be done from a tough time approach, where it's people that are older, it's your parents, it's your teachers, and then don't leave noise out of this conversation.

Kutloano Skosana: 17:29

Exactly, Exactly. This is Chayzen Leyes, and today we have Sissy Plum-Dobombuana, who is the founder of Shiba Feminine. Let's now get into the educational aspect of her work as a menstrual and sexual health advocate. So tell me about your education program. You were talking about workshops. You know how does your outreach work?

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 17:55

So we have a Pay for a Pals Pads program. So what we've done is that we've subsidized our pads quite a lot with a Pay for a Pals Pads program and then what we do is that when somebody has then gone and donated to the program, we go to no fee schools Usually. We are starting to try and do Joburg now that I am based in Joburg but we've done Cape Town schools and schools in the Eastern Cape very rural Eastern Cape and we host workshops where we speak about all the different things that have to do with not only menstruation but reproductive and sexual health. I mean, we go as far as speaking about consent, things that we feel like are really indicative of what happens in that school, not only school setting, but in that setting, like in at those ages where the education isn't really there, where people that are older aren't really having these conversations with the kids and really speaking about things that are taboo, where they don't feel like they can be comfortable enough to speak to parents about it, to speak to teachers about it, etc.

Kutloano Skosana: 19:02

Yeah, what does your typical year look like when you do the outreach?

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 19:06

So it'll depend. What we found is that quite a few schools will actually reach out and say hey, listen, we have an issue with gender-based violence at the school, where the boys are bullying the girls. Can we have somebody come out? So we'll have things like that, where it's a school that reaches out to us. And then we will have other people that we work with. So we've worked with the Sarah Bartman Foundation, we've worked with Kora Project in Cape Town. So if we're working with somebody like that, then they'll be the ones that sort of formulate what they want the program to look like, and then we step in as the people that will then speak about specifically menstruation. So it just depends.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 19:45

And obviously there are months that are much busier than others. So we find that Youth Month, the one that has Youth Day, has been a woman's month. I'm trying to understand it in like a yeah, but we find that Youth Month Women's Month. Those are the sort of busier months. And then, yeah, sort of the end of the year as well, those 16 days of activism. Yeah, it just depends. It depends on who needs what at that time. We will be right.

Kutloano Skosana: 20:12

Who's working with you?

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 20:14

So it is myself, and then I have Jamie who's the head of operations, and then we have Cecil who does our marketing, and then we usually will just take on one or two facilitators over the year, so people that we train to then go into the schools with us. So it'll just depend. Sometimes one person can do three schools and another person can only come to one, so it'll depend. So we'll switch people in and out, just like that.

Kutloano Skosana: 20:41

As you go. Yeah, and you've got this. Pay for a Pals pads, but commercially, where are you available?

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 20:48

We are available on Take a Lot. We're available at Eden Vine. We're available at Beauty on Tap. We're available at Organic Zone, and then you can also, obviously, shop for us on our own website, which is an online store, right?

Kutloano Skosana: 21:04

So it's all the indie outlets. Any ambitions of being in a place like Clicks we?

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 21:10

do have ambitions. We really do. You know we'll be like yesterday, I think that you know we've started having those conversations with your like with Clicks specifically, but it is quite difficult because, yeah, I think they have already the products that are sort of the monopoly. So it's quite difficult for them, Like in terms of shelf space. That's what they've said, at least to us. So, yeah, I mean we are trying. We send them emails every two months.

Kutloano Skosana: 21:46

Right, right.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 21:47

Yeah, but yeah, that is part of our ambition. I mean, it would be absolutely phenomenal for us. We would love that. So how are you funded? Yeah, we're bootstrapping Mm, hmm, and that's that's how we've been doing it. So, through our own sales, that's how we get through our financial year. We don't have any external funding.

Kutloano Skosana: 22:08

Okay, and I know your big thing is accessibility, and that leads me to think about the sustainability of it all. Right, so sustainability is quite a. It's a weird term. I call it Because it's got some connotations which may be out of context for a place like South Africa. So you know, how do you view the whole issue of sustainability? I know you're making organic products, so that's one part of it and it's multifaceted, right. So yeah. So what's your take? How does it apply to the Shiba context?

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 22:49

You know what? I also have a love-hate relationship with the term sustainability. I think that, like the connotations surrounding it are, they're whack I don't have another way to say that. I think they're so whack. I think that they're so misguided.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 23:03

I think that a lot of the time when we think of sustainability, we have a very specific sort of like Western and like white sort of like view of it, and I think that, like, if we really think back to what sustainability means, what it looks like, where it comes from, where even those sort of theories that have been now given to us, where they come from, it's all Indigenous people. So, like, for me specifically, I feel like when we speak about sustainability, we're speaking about it from like a very Indigenous way. We're speaking about it from like a very grassroots way. I think also like a very like ancient and like ancestral way. We're only going back to what was being done before. We're not learning anything new, especially as Black people. This isn't anything new to us. This isn't something that's been given to us, something that has always been a part of us. Being one with nature, being one with the earth, being one with water, being one with fire, being one with air, has always, always been a part of who we are and how we exist.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 24:09

So for me, in the context of Siba, that's also why Siba has a very African name. That's also why I think you want it to be sustainable, right, because this introduction of plastics doesn't come from us. So when we're now saying we're using products that have plastics, et cetera, that's not something that we know. All we've actually ever known is that even when plastics were introduced into our lives, it was okay. Then we're going to recycle, right. We're not only gonna use this thing once, we're gonna use it multiple times after that. So that's also why I think menstrual cups are really important to me, and also just being one with blood. Right, we used to slaughter, right, we slaughtered our own animals to eat. So blood was never something that was far from us, that was disgusting to us, whether it was at all.

Kutloano Skosana: 24:59

It's not disgusting exactly.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 25:01

Like you know what I mean. These are things that have come afterwards, that we've now learned. So, even now, this whole culture of blood being something that we consider disgusting, we very much just used to free bleed and that was it. Like that's how we used to live and that was a very normal part of life and that's how we existed. So I think that, like going back to like the way that we used to do things and then sharing that knowledge for me is like the most important thing. So, yeah, for me, the facet of Siba that is the most important is the fact that no one is going to sell sustainability back to me, like I know it, it's my life.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 25:37

That is how I live. That is how many, many, many, many generations before we have lived. That's how we are, especially as black people. So if you look at Siba in that light, and I think sustainability in that light, where you unpack it like that, it's all part of us.

Kutloano Skosana: 25:52

Yeah, I mean there's nothing to teach, honestly.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 25:55

It's just a continuation. Yes, exactly that. All secularity, Exactly exactly.

Kutloano Skosana: 26:02

Yeah, I like the film that you made and the reference to this being an ancient way of existence and I like that you approached it from different parts of the world. But it just goes back to show that these are ancient ways of having done things and it's only now, because commerce has an interest or are being held accountable, that it's being resold to all of us as something that's brand new. It's like no, please stop. You just need to hold yourself accountable for the way you do business.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 26:35

Honestly, and that's all it is.

Kutloano Skosana: 26:37

Stop putting it on us and leave us out of it. Ok, you do better.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 26:41

Honestly and leave us out of it. Like, leave us out of it. That's something that we've always done. How can you come and resell it back to us? But you've taken it from us, you've taken the medicine from us, you've taken the theory from us. You've just gone and said sustainability, what?

Kutloano Skosana: 27:01

Yeah, no, that's how we A conversation for the ages. I tell you I love this kind of thing. I love it. Zizi Puntobongwana is the founder of Shiba Feminine H Johannesburg-based menstrual care company. Here she is on the life events that have shaped her, as well as her answers to the shades and layers rapid fire. So tell me about your film career.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 27:26

Yeah, yeah, what film career.

Kutloano Skosana: 27:31

OK, I've seen that you made quite impactful films, so you must be working in the space. I double.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 27:41

I always say that I think I always let what I feel in the moment. I let that lead me. I will never say that I do this or I do this. It's not one thing that I really do but.

Kutloano Skosana: 27:53

If.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 27:53

I feel really moved to do something and to work towards something, then that's what I will do in that year. I love photography. I love just how things look and how things are presented and how to really story tell through images. So for me, that year was about storytelling through images and I really wanted to share what I had found. Yeah, not only through decolonial theory, but also just the history of my people. And if you actually sit down and actually sat down and I thought about it and that's when I started writing I was like, well, actually I don't know if anyone else has this thought, but let me just put this down into pictures for everyone and then you can see what you can do with that. So, like I say, I don't know if I could say I have a film career per se. I can say that I have a career in the arts, but I don't know if it's really any medium that I feel like will convey what I want to say.

Kutloano Skosana: 28:51

Yeah, so you've got skills. Well, thank you. So let's talk about your personal journey. You mentioned that it's sharing your culture and the people you come from, so what are some of the things that you remember that you're comfortable to share? Of course, growing up, what are the three things that made the most impact on you and contributed to how you've turned out today?

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 29:18

OK, ok, I love that question. I think the first thing that really contributed into who I am today was my grandmother had, like you know, like rural, rural Eastern Cape, so like my grandmother had like a little like tuck shop. So we used to then be tasked with making like a bombie, which were you would take the auto crash and then, like you would put like a lot of sugar and then, like we had like this really small, like that, one of those first fridges, slash freezer that you used to, like you had to put it on like a battery for it to work. I don't know if you remember that, but yeah, I remember.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 29:55

Yeah. So basically one of like my earliest memories of like entrepreneurship and I guess like just working towards something, was creating Ipom before my grandmother, and then like selling them, like to like pass the buys. We'd sell them, I think it was like for like 20 cents or something, and then, like you know, it should give us a little like cut and like, oh, we did the things we did oh my gosh. We did this so like.

Kutloano Skosana: 30:22

I always remember.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 30:24

When I think of entrepreneurship, that's one of the first stories that I really like took home, I guess, yeah, and like took to heart.

Kutloano Skosana: 30:34

Right.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 30:34

Amen. The other thing that I really can't get over and I think that also shaped how she became to be was that we were not allowed to call vaginas vaginas. Growing up, like, we always had to call a vagina a butterfly, and I just had so much shame surrounding it. So I think now that I'm, like, older and I've gotten to know my body a lot more, I'm trying to rid myself of the shame, right, and that process has really allowed me to become more personal and forthcoming when it comes to Shiba. So that's why even our blog posts are the way that they are. We speak very openly, we're trying to, you know, like, remove the stigma, the shame.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 31:17

But it wasn't even really about Shiba. I think Shiba was just now another vehicle for me to do that. But that shame surrounding the word vagina, it's always stuck with me. I think it really impacted the way that, like, I moved from when I realized that actually I don't want to do this, you know, anymore. I don't want to surround myself with that shame anymore. And then the third thing that has really impacted I think boarding school really impacted the person that I am today.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 31:49

I think that I was at St Ant's in the Midlands.

Kutloano Skosana: 31:52

Okay, all right, yeah cool. My friend Maria went there. Yeah, really yeah, maria McCloy, she's my bestie.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 32:01

Love her, Like whenever she DJs. Anyway, I'm there like yeah.

Kutloano Skosana: 32:06

I love that.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 32:09

I love her. Love, love, love. So I think boarding school really shaped like the person that I am, I think, like being oh I mean now we're going to go into the psychology of it but like I don't know if I can say hyper independent, but like being really independent, sure, yeah, yeah, it was really like fueled by that boarding school space and yeah, I think it just really allowed me to become myself outside of my family and like what my parents wanted me to be. So I just felt like so liberated, I just did what I wanted to do, sure.

Kutloano Skosana: 32:44

Yeah.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 32:45

So I think those are the three things that really have shaped the person that I am today.

Kutloano Skosana: 32:49

Perfect. And if you had to sum it up, all of that story into one memoir, what would you call it and why?

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 32:58

I would call it damn, I can't believe I made it here. The reason why is because, like, I think it's like really contextual and it works like okay, if I'm dead and I've already written the memoir, it's like damn, I can't believe I made it here. Like I can't believe I'm dead, whether I'm in hell or whatever. And then, like the other is like damn, I can't believe I made it here. Like I can't believe, like I'm where I am, where I actually feel like I can write a memoir about my life. Who do I think I am Right, nice, so yeah, that's what I would call it. That's why.

Kutloano Skosana: 33:36

Brilliant, and who would you pick to play the lead actress in the biopic version?

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 33:42

I think I would. I think I would pick Tucson Beidou. I love her. I love her. Yes, I think she's so adorable and like I think she's also got like a fire within her that I think would be able to like portray the fire that I think I have in me.

Kutloano Skosana: 34:00

And she's just a great actress. Sure, yeah, yeah, she's fantastic. So today, let's say, you're hosting a dinner and you could invite any famous black woman, living or dead. Who would it be?

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 34:11

I thought very long and hard about this one. This one was quite difficult, I'm not going to lie. So I think that either I would invite Issa Rae or I would invite Solange. I think creatively those are the Issa, obviously. Her writing is just brilliant and her directing Solange is also directing, but more of like a creative director. So I think those are the two people. I wouldn't know who to choose between them, but those are the people that I would pick up to in the creative space. So I'm like, if I do anything in my life, I want it to look like the things that they have done. I want to emulate that. They're so amazing, I love that.

Kutloano Skosana: 34:50

Great. What can we expect from Shiba Feminine?

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 34:53

Oh, what can we expect? I have my ear on the ground a bit, so I have been listening to. You know what people would really like, so I want to give the people what they want. That's what you can expect. What you want, I want to give it to you. I want to give you more products you really want to go into, like period panties and underwear. I think that's our next big project that we really want to get into. But I think we really want to create a really revolutionary period ad. That's what we really want to do. So we are hoping to get funding to do that. But we want to create something that's funny, that is truthful. That is it for the period space.

Kutloano Skosana: 35:33

Brilliant. Yeah, that's wonderful. And in the meantime, where can people find you?

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 35:40

So please can people go onto our website, which is wwwshibafemininecoza? We have like a really cool blog where we speak about all things like reproductive and sexual health. That's where you should find us first and foremost. But we are in physical stores like Organic Zone in Cape Town, in Joburg it's Beauty on Tap, in Pretoria it's Eden Vine and then we're also on Take A Lot. So if you're trying to buy something else from Take A Lot, just add us to your cart.

Kutloano Skosana: 36:14

Awesome. I love it. I love it. Thank you so much, zizipo. This has been such a pleasure and I wish you all the best with all your projects, and I can't wait to see what you do next.

Zizipho Ntobongwana: 36:25

Oh, thank you so much for having me, Kutrono. It was absolutely amazing. I had so much fun. That was the biggest thing for me.

Kutloano Skosana: 36:32

Great, yeah. Thanks for sharing your story, and that is all from me today. Thank you for joining this conversation. If there's anything that you wish to understand about ZiziPo and menstrual care in general, please go to the show notes. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend and give us a five-star rating and review. Wherever you listen. I'm Kutvernos Kosena Richie, and until next time, please do take good care.