Vava Specialty Coffee with Vava Angwenyi (S7, E2)

Kenyan-born entrepreneur Vava Angwenyi is a specialty coffee exporter, producer and roaster. She founded Vava Coffee Inc, which is B-Corp Certified entity and later co-founded Gente Del Futuro with a Tanzania-based Colombian partner, with the mission of having a meaningful impact on the monopolized coffee trade in East Africa.

This episode takes us deep into the rich tapestry of the African coffee industry, as Vava recounts her personal journey and the transformative initiatives she's launched. Vava’s passion for coffee is not just about savoring its taste. She's dedicated to educating local youth about the industry, empowering them with practical skills and opening doors of opportunity.

Her story takes us through the rough terrains of global trade standards, shedding light on how they shape the continent's coffee sector. We also discuss  how colonial legacy lingers in  Africa's coffee consumption habits and highlight how the Gente del Futuro project is having a positive impact on this factor and unlocking other areas of  potential within the African coffee industry. Through education, Gente del Futuro is addressing unemployment, elevating women and girls' exposure to the coffee industry and serves as a career launchpad into the industry young people.

We celebrate the opening of the first-ever coffee house in Lamu, a historic milestone in promoting agriculture and coffee. Wrapping up our discussion, we explore the role of ancestral wisdom in decision-making and the profound influence of authenticity in our lives. And don't miss out on hearing about Vava’s book 'Coffee, Milk, Blood' - a celebration of African culture and Vava's journey in the coffee industry. So, are you ready for a cup of brewed insights?

LINKS AND MENTIONS

Vava Coffee Inc. - https://www.vavacoffeeinc.com

Kuijenga - a Vava Coffee project showcasing their impact work in Lamu, Kenya - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmrdTvPrkgs

Coffee Milk Blood - An insider's view of Kenya's coffee industry - https://www.coffeemilkblood.com/new-products-1/swahili-soul-event-lamu 

Chapters

• 0:05 Coffee Industry and Entrepreneurship in Kenya
• 13:52 African Coffee Industry Challenges and Potential
• 21:07 Promoting Coffee and empowering women and youth in Lamu
• 33:43 Creative gifts from the ancestors and Shades & Layers Rapid Fire

Transcript

Kutloano Skosana: 0:05

Hello and welcome to Shades and Layers. I'm your host, gudburnas Kasanarichi, and today we are focused on the coffee industry. Our story takes us to one of Africa's top coffee producing countries, kenya, and this gives us the perfect opportunity to expand our ever-evolving conversation on sustainability and, of course, to update our masterclass notes on entrepreneurial success. My guest, vava Angweny, hails from Kenya and is the founder and chief coffee holic at her very own export company and brand, vava Specialty Coffee.

Kutloano Skosana: 0:38

She is also the author and publisher of a book called Coffee Milk Blood, a celebration of coffee culture that shows a different and very little scene side from the coffee industry. There are no coffee shops or brewing machines in any of the photos in this coffee table book. Vava's work also has an educational aspect to it and for this part, she has combined resources with a Colombian partner to create Gente del Futuro, and together they educate local youth in Lamutam, where she works most of the time on all aspects of the industry, from agronomy to bean roasting. Now, it goes without saying that this is yet another space or industry that has deep inclusion issues, and my guest today is one of a handful of industry disruptors on the African continent. And, as always, on Shades and Leas. The lessons are in the story itself, so listen closely and enjoy this amazing tale of triumph from Vava Angweny.

Vava Angwenyi: 1:37

My names are Vava Angweny and I like to say many things and I don't like to pigeonhole myself but for the sake of people knowing what I do. I'm a coffee exporter primarily, but also producer and entrepreneur, so very passionate about businesses that can have an impact on community. So, other than exporting and growing coffee with my family, I'm also an educator in the coffee space, running a coffee program in Lamutam and also a cafe in Lamutam. Yeah, so that is the snippet intro.

Kutloano Skosana: 2:15

And do you always ask my guests what's the deeper meaning you attach to the work that you do?

Vava Angwenyi: 2:20

It's a very good question and for me, I would say, because of all the opportunities I have been given by the universe and when I say the universe it's all the people that I've come across, my family and all the people that I've walked into my life I believe that I owe it to the universe to give back with my skills and with my gifts that were bestowed upon me. So for me, it's taking what I have identified as my purpose in life and utilizing that to help people around me either become better or to discover things themselves. So in all the things that I there's always like an ingrained part of that it's not just about making money. There's got to be some positive outcome or discovery that comes out of it.

Kutloano Skosana: 3:12

So it's 2009,. You have this idea to give back or to start something that will bring about change, what's been leading up to that event, where you say that's it. I'm starting this Vava speciality coffee and this is what I'm running with.

Vava Angwenyi: 3:31

Well, prior to that. I think the bug like the each started way back when I was in Canada as a uni student and started asking questions around. You know the coffee shops I went I hang out at a team Horton's quite a bit Starbucks, you know, because there was coffee shops on campus and as a student you're I was taking one of those courses where you really need to be caffeine loaded to stay up and spend a lot of time. But I also really used to question things around economics and demand supply and reference that back to what I saw back home. So, looking at I think it's just the discovery of what I saw in terms of branding of coffees from Kenya, coffees from Africa, ethiopia, kenya and other origins and started asking questions around the storytelling but also the price. And when you sort of look at how coffees are branded or how people talk about coffees from the origin in consuming countries, you wonder, you always wonder does this farmer know where the coffee went? Does the farmer really get accredited properly and what is the story behind it and how much? To be honest, it was more like how much are they getting paid? And then looking, referencing back to like my grandmother at the time because she was the one like in charge of the coffee farm and wondering how they were so unhappy all the time like, oh, we didn't get enough money, we didn't get enough money, all of that and I don't know.

Vava Angwenyi: 4:57

For some reason I think because I loved to drink coffee and I was always about like, whatever knowledge I'm getting here in Canada, I'd like to take that back home. Somehow I was one of those like kids from Africa who were like I really didn't have that whole bag of like I want to stay in Canada for the rest of my life and whatever I was, just like I want to take the most out of this place and go back home with it and make my community a better place. You know, like right, use the knowledge and go elevate my people. So with that, the bag stayed with him, with me and I remember having even conversations with my dad was still around at the time and trying to see how best or what I could study that matched my skills, which were numbers and just economics. So with that, for some reason, like some conversations I kept having with my dad growing up were he always used to call employment slavery and he was like I never want you to. He's like I never want you to be enslaved to someone and work a typical nine to five. I want you to have the luxury and the freedom to make your choices. So my parents typically invested quite a bit Interesting, yeah so, and funny enough, they were both, you know, employed.

Vava Angwenyi: 6:10

But I guess at the time, because of you know security and having you know kids, it was sort of entrepreneurship was never really like a thing a lot of people did. You know. Even today it's like right, it's something that we in Africa talk about, but it's practically hardly. Even none of my friends are really entrepreneurs. Like I started making friends in different circles when I was like I have to find my group of people that understand the entrepreneurial struggle. But a lot of folks that I went to school with are not entrepreneurs. They're mostly working nine to five jobs.

Vava Angwenyi: 6:40

Right, for me I would say it's the bug. Like because I I'll say my dad was one of the biggest influences in that decision was that whole thing of nine to five is a slave job. Like you're just not going to be happy. I'm giving you all this tool so that one day you can build something and do it, you know, be happy with what you're building. And then I discovered coffee and then I was like I really want to do something for coffee producers in not just in Kenya but in Africa. And I was thinking initially I was thinking along the lines of policy implementation and policy changes, because I know that a lot of the regulations and policies that Kenya has been trading with were mostly from the colonial era.

Vava Angwenyi: 7:23

So I wanted to sort of come back and see how I may influence government policy and see how we can change things for producers in that sense. So that is how like it all started. And then with time I slowly gathered the bravery to sort of tell the people around me, especially my mother, because at that time she was now a widow and there's that expectation in African culture that you don't go do something so risque like don't have an income for a while and you're going to go borrow money to start a business.

Kutloano Skosana: 7:54

Just start a business. Yeah, just don't do that.

Vava Angwenyi: 7:57

Just don't do that. So it took me quite a while to actually reveal that, but at the back of my mind I always knew I wanted to do something entrepreneurial.

Kutloano Skosana: 8:06

Yeah, so storytelling is a big part of how you promoting the growth and also changing perceptions of coffee production and understanding where things come from. So what would you say? We are not seeing about how coffee is produced, where it comes from and who's making it, and are we starting to see any changes, seeing as we are hopefully going beyond the colonial era now?

Vava Angwenyi: 8:35

Well, I'll say things are slowly changing, I mean, but I'm glad to see the things are slowly changing rather than not changing at all. Just from you know where I stand, I'll say there's people listening finally, especially the business owners in the consuming countries, some, especially roasters, who are becoming more aware that how they've been representing producers is the wrong way, that it's been always in a colonial lens. I think you've come across my book Coffee, milk, blood. Yes, I have, and that book alone was triggered with, just after years of being in an industry that really did not see women like myself who are from a producing country, you're a business owner.

Vava Angwenyi: 9:21

There's always that expectation that if you're not like one of these big coffee companies or if you're not from a consuming country, you're really like a small, tiny person in the specialty coffee industry. So people just ignore you. You're more like a flower on the wall most of the times. Right, it's like a lot of uncomfortable conversations that I had with peers as I was trying to get into this industry because it's a very like. It's like a club of people who know each other, a lot of clicks and things like that. And, to be honest, when you're not a big player, even from Kenya.

Vava Angwenyi: 9:54

You ignore it, people are like oh yeah, she's just trying to make some noise and whatever. So it took a lot of like for me, like just doing things differently from, and I was not shy, I was just like I just have to do my thing. Because even when I got into the Kenyan coffee sector and and you know, got my exporting license and everything like, people laughed at me. People were like, oh, what does she think she's going to do? And I would say that naivety has served me well. It's not something that I advise you know people to do, but I think sometimes naivety is a good, great tool. You don't know any better. Yeah, you don't know what you don't know and you think you can conquer the world and take over. Like I just went in with the naivety that I know that change can come. I know my, my story is different and I can do things differently. And everyone kept saying, everyone kept referencing the big companies in Kenyan. They're like so how do you compare it? It's like I'm not comparing myself to them because I would never have the same resources as them, but I know that I can slowly doing things differently and people will notice. So when you talk about like the storytelling and all of that is like there is a way that when you want people to to finally maybe stop and listen or like collaborate with you or do things differently, I I sort of figured you also can go and rough them up or you like.

Vava Angwenyi: 11:09

Going in with a lot of aggression at times doesn't work. It's more, you have to take an educational approach because, given the history of course, colonialism, and given the history of even how Kenya operates right now in certain sectors, sometimes white folk just don't know that they are being racist or they don't know that you know they are doing things. Some people just don't know because that's been the norm. So nobody's ever going to be like I know I feel like you're undermining my abilities or anything, even as African or black people are very afraid, or like a lot of us don't speak up, we just go with the state of school and you're like I just need to make a living and blah, blah, blah.

Vava Angwenyi: 11:47

So there's nothing to really lose. You can really forge your own path and make people stand still and be like hey, you know, I see something different here. So when you ask about the progress, I started noticing even before the book that people were really leaning in and asking or looking at. Okay, so what is she saying about like economic empowerment and how it's different for folks in Kenya and we look at it differently. We know with you know the gender, you know so all of those things and, to be honest, it's when you take the educational approach and when people are finally realizing that they've not really been listening to all that they are working with, then you know the ethics of really dictates that certain things have to change. I know I've like answered your question in like a long yeah.

Kutloano Skosana: 12:39

I was actually. Yeah, coming to the to the fairness part, right, there is something called fair trade. I hate that term because it has all sorts of connotations, but you know, when you talk fairness in who gets paid, what you know are you starting to see a change there? Or, you know, do you find that there's still a lot of attempts to undercut pricing and just not paying the fair dues to the people who are running the farms where coffee is grown, et cetera.

Vava Angwenyi: 13:09

I think there's a lot of talk in the sector about ethics and people ethically buying, but hardly anyone does it. Like very few people are happy to pay the correct or the right price to producers simply because we've been hiding behind the certifications for a while. Because, also like like you, I have a problem with the word fair trade. I feel like it should be fair economics. Like it should just be not even fair, it should just be profitable trade, not fair. Yeah, because fair also has that connotation that we're just going to be, we're trying to be nice, we're trying to be fair. It's not a charity, you know it's not a charity. Farmers are trying to be profitable and farmers have the toughest job that nobody really understands. Like, and especially with issues around climate change and industries changing, like in Kenya alone right now, there's a lot happening in terms of change within the coffee sector, but also change economically because of things that have happened with past governments and the present government, and so standards of living have changed, you know, not for the better. Climate change is upon us, but you find that the consuming countries, the buying, the folks that are buying the coffee, often are the ones dictating the terms. You find that, as an exporter. You cannot export coffee that is not of a certain caliber with Europe, with Canada, with whatever, because all of these countries set, you know, what they call gap measures. Like you know, some say if it's not organic, we don't want it. You know they send the coffee to the lab, whatever. So there's all of those barriers to entry that produces are the ones that have to fulfill this barriers to entry, otherwise they cannot sell the coffee. So you find that there's the European standard of trading, there's the American one, and then you find Canada also has its terms and regulations for you know what is exportable quality. So I find that the there's no, the, the skills are never going to be balanced. That's. I think that's just a fact of life because of demand, supply. But then I have to say that there's a few good people within the sector that actually listen and want to pay better.

Vava Angwenyi: 15:21

But you find that even sometimes you can start a relationship with a roaster who truly wants to do the right thing, but the moment something happens in their economy that impacts their business, some don't even hesitate to just cut off. You know the volume, be it the producer, they're just like, hey, we're struggling too bad, not realizing what that repercussion has on both the exporter, producer, whatever. So I find that sometimes it's such a selfish action. With some of the partners you know, you know in the market, it's like we're good up until a certain point, right, right, and if you're impacted economically I don't even think twice.

Vava Angwenyi: 16:06

Some you can negotiate, but with others it's like an unnegotiable and you have to really just go find another home for the coffee. So when you ask yourself, where does the farmer, if a farmer has been relying on you for three, four, five seasons, it's back to square one and looking for a new home for the coffee for the volumes that have been dropped. All of that it's really a lot of work. I know it's business. So I think farmers and folks like myself really have the tougher job in just. Sometimes we're just recipients of whatever befalls the importer or the roaster, which is never going to be fair, yeah, so what's your countermeasure then?

Vava Angwenyi: 16:49

It's always to like don't never just rely on like a certain set of clients always like diversify One. For me it's always diversify your revenue stream, but also try and limit your risk by having like other options of clients who could pick up whatever is not picked up. So never quite put all your eggs in one basket you like in this industry. If you do that like, you could easily like shut down business you always have to be on the lookout, even if you have trusted clients.

Vava Angwenyi: 17:22

They will totally understand if, because when stuff happens on their end and they have to chop volumes, chop you off, they will simply tell you in a nice way and then you, you will just have to go resolve whatever plans you had made financially elsewhere and life continues. So I always say, as an entrepreneur, diversify, and always with, even as a producer, you, you gotta have diversification.

Kutloano Skosana: 17:50

Right right, this is Shazen Leyes, and today we are focused on coffee industry in Africa. My guest, vava Anguigni, is one of a handful of women coffee exporters from the continent. She is also the founder and chief coffee holic at her eponymous specialty coffee company. Up next, we talk about the African coffee market and coffee drinking culture. So I'm hearing EU standards, canada, us what about the African market? How is that looking as a potential place to export Kenyan produced coffee?

Vava Angwenyi: 18:30

Well, I wish we would be more organized as African countries, really work on what we talk about at EU meetings in terms of the whole NEPAD and Africa trade agreements. There's a lot of potential on the continent, to be honest, especially, like you know, when I get approached by folks in South Africa because you know they don't grow coffee but they do have a vibrant coffee market there's there's there's barriers to export as well in Africa. Sometimes I would say, like I've gone through a situation where it was tougher for me to ship in coffee from Tanzania than it is to actually ship coffee out of Kenya Like and I was just like more expensive. So I think we need to get our act together, especially our leaders, in terms of just easing trade within boundaries, especially agricultural produce. But I would say there's a lot of potential in growing our own markets locally in terms of just trying to increase consumption locally.

Vava Angwenyi: 19:25

But you know, you can we also blame colonialism for that. The uptake has not been so great because colonially we were not allowed to consume good coffee. We you know, most of us, like colonized by the British are more tea drinking countries, but even we don't drink the good tea. So colonialism has a role to play in African, I would say, consumption habits, especially when it comes to agricultural crops like coffee and, you know, tea. So, but I would say there's room for growth there, but it will take, I would say, the next generation, it's going to take the young people, to really switch up all of this colonial sort of habits we have with, you know, consuming things like coffee and tea.

Kutloano Skosana: 20:07

Right. Speaking of education, let's get to Gendel Fuduro. Thanks for pronouncing it well, yeah, so tell me about that alliance and how it works, who's involved, etc. So, gendel.

Vava Angwenyi: 20:25

Fuduro is a project we started in 2017 with a Colombian partner, both based in Tanzania and Colombia, just taking a program that had been implemented in Medellín and trying to replicate it in Tanzania. Initially, we supported 12 women six Kenya, six Tanzanian women in exposing them to the coffee sector beyond the farm, so, but also like the trigger for this is just realizing that, as an industry, there is a danger. Given the average age of coffee producers now 63 in Kenya, there is a danger that coffee production volumes will never be the same or there's a lot of abandoned farms because young people are really not interested in agriculture. As a young person growing up as well, we were not encouraged to do agriculture. Personally, I took agriculture as a subject in school. So happy that I did that.

Vava Angwenyi: 21:16

But if you ever told someone you're going to be a farmer on graduating from uni, everyone would laugh at you. Like people will be like oh my God. Like, has she lost it, remember? Like I don't have the experiences where people will be like okay, what exactly that's supposed to be? Like a side thing where you go, you know, maybe farm on the weekends, but it's not a real job. Like, what is agriculture? None of us ever thought about the value addition aspects or anything like that. Agriculture was a form of punishment.

Vava Angwenyi: 21:45

In fact, for most of us we're going to go dig just because you've done something naughty. So we looked at rates of unemployment in all of these three geographies and you're looking at issues that affect young people, be it drugs, be it when you're unemployed, you're idle, and a lot of negative things happen in society. So, after the success of like a reiteration of these programs, we decided to now do it in Lamu, and the ideas want to decommodate coffee, but more so to find, you know, local solutions for local problems. One huge issue we have, not just in Kenya but in Africa, is unemployment, the rate of unemployment and imparting practical skills to young people that they can use to actually get employment, be it start their own businesses or actually go get like vocational training, that they can actually go get a job somewhere. So we use two curriculums.

Vava Angwenyi: 22:45

We have our own in-house curriculum that's very practical, where young people get to learn about coffee from the seedlings, like how to prepare coffee nursery to how coffee grows, the different conditions. So when they get the opportunity they actually spend time on a coffee farm and then they also now get to learn all the stuff that they really love, which is the barista skills, the brewing skills, all the fancy stuff that they like to do, because hardly is anyone. Very few people are geeky enough to be excited about agronomy or science, but we find some that are really keen on that, and then the idea is to actually give them internships or to find partners within the industry where they can get more molding in terms of just how to articulate their ideas, but also hands on experience whether you want to become a coffee trader, a coffee exporter or things like that. And then we also propose them to all of that experience and then give them options to pick and choose where they want to work.

Vava Angwenyi: 23:43

We also use the specialty coffee association coffee skills program which, given how much people love certificates in any place, and education is not an education if you don't have a certificate that is accredited with an institution, so that is why the specialty coffee association coffee skills program is so that they can get those diplomas and have something to show, but also it can also be an opportunity for them to get international exposure eventually. So how we've run the program so far is by funding it ourselves internally, but also goodwill like people that are our clients that support the students with scholarships and then just internally, just always fundraising for the project. So yeah, so that is.

Kutloano Skosana: 24:34

GDF Right, and you know how do you measure success for something like that.

Vava Angwenyi: 24:41

That's a really good question. It's more like measuring your impact. So we see, we look at first of all, like how many students we take on board, like the enrollment numbers, but also, more importantly, because we have a passion of also just prioritizing women who apply for the program assist women versus men that apply for the program, and then how many of them stick it out to get a diploma or write the exams and pass the, how many of them pass the and get a diploma, and then how many actually get jobs within the coffee sector and how many like jobs with us or jobs with others, and how many are still within the coffee sector, like a year or two years later. So, and how you know, it's a matter of always collecting data and trying to always like keep in touch with with the students to ensure that we are actually getting the accurate feedback from them.

Kutloano Skosana: 25:39

Right, yeah, that's fantastic. And then you actually created a physical space for all of this to play out. Tell me about your cafe, the first coffee house in Lamu.

Vava Angwenyi: 25:52

Lamu being. I'd say that's home for me and it's got a really special place in my heart since I started going there about 10 years ago and it's I don't know if you've been to.

Kutloano Skosana: 26:01

Kenya Lamu. I've been to Nairobi, but not Lamu.

Vava Angwenyi: 26:05

You should come, and I think everyone that comes to Lamu wants to come back and come back, and come back.

Kutloano Skosana: 26:10

Some people often stay here.

Vava Angwenyi: 26:13

And that is, that is my, that is what happened to me the first time I went, and because the people there are honestly like some of like, the vibe in Lamu is so different in terms of the honesty of the people and how welcoming they are.

Vava Angwenyi: 26:26

People say Kenyans are welcoming, whatever, but go to Lamu when it's a different kind of like I'm at home kind of vibe and I saw you know this, this group of people, this Lamuans, who sometimes are also taken advantage of by you know the sometimes you find a lot of the businesses there are also foreign owned, like in terms of the hotels and the Airbnb, and I looked at it like some of the investment is more extractive rather than putting back in the community, right, right, I've always been passionate about education and giving people skills that they can actually use on their own.

Vava Angwenyi: 27:02

So I felt like, okay, other than fishing or whatever, because not the women being being that it's a Muslim community, obviously the women can go fishing. There's a very limited number of things that the women on the island can do for jobs. So for me, one thing was to create a solution for the women, the Muslim girls, who can't primarily just hop on a boat or go hustle tourists for gigs was to create a safe space for them to come learn a skill and still comfortably work in their hijabs.

Vava Angwenyi: 27:28

You know, behind the coffee bar serve clients a space where they can feel like they're safe and we respect the culture and we don't serve alcohol and all of those things Just respecting local culture and providing a safe space. The other was obviously like when it's low season or when there's not a lot of tourists, a lot of people have nothing to do and the poverty levels are quite high and also the illiteracy levels so, and very few people have the resources to actually go invest or leave Lamu to go get a skill. So I felt like someone who has been coming in as a canyon as well, like I felt like this was the kind of place that I could sort of set up something special, and also the coffee offerings on the island were terrible. So I was just like. I was like there's no way.

Kutloano Skosana: 28:15

I need to save this situation. I can't survive.

Vava Angwenyi: 28:17

I need to salvage this situation. Because every time I would travel to Lamu I'm staying at like a nice Airbnb or hotel and you're getting crappy coffee. I was just like nah.

Kutloano Skosana: 28:28

And I was like I'm not gonna be putting out my coffee brewing kit all the time just to brew my coffee.

Vava Angwenyi: 28:34

I have to create a space for this type of thing, and so I started talking to some of my partners, like people that buy my coffee, and I just ran the idea with some people that I really trust, whose opinions I trust, and I was like do you think this could work? Whatever. So I started looking for real estate on the island and, to be honest, like I never expected it to be in Lamu Old Town because there is one when you come to Lamu you'll understand this which is the more bougie side of Lamu. And then there's Lamu town, where everything started, like that is the world heritage site, but at the time it's been so neglected in terms of, like, lack of proper garbage disposal facilities and things like that. So I felt, when I was being taken to look at this site, I was just like nah, whatever it's like, when you watch the video, you've seen how the place looked, like a bomb had just been thrown at it.

Kutloano Skosana: 29:30

Yeah, it was like. You must have some kind of vision to transform this.

Vava Angwenyi: 29:36

You know how this is like. So I called my friend, who's the architect I've been working with on this site, and I was like hey, I gotta show you something. So she's like do a video. At that time she was actually sick in hospital. She's like let's do a video call, take me through the space. And I don't know.

Vava Angwenyi: 29:52

In my mind I envisioned a little courtyard in Greece, like a little Mediterranean, whatever. I saw the wreckage, whatever. And you know, I actually thank the universe that the guy that was really pushing me to see the space was so persistent because he had shown me a space in Shella and I liked it. But the deal fell through. But then he's like no, no, no, madam, before you leave, please come see this other space. So he literally takes me to this place and like one looks like the space where the coffee buyers right now look like a dungeon where things were dying. And then the garden looked how it was in the video. And then the moment I got into the garden, my eyes lit up. I was like whoa, the trees. There was a lovely guava tree, there was this other, there was so many trees. And then I just showed my friend the video and she's like, you gotta take this space, you gotta take it. You gotta take it. That's wonderful.

Vava Angwenyi: 30:52

And I was like how much work is ahead of us. I was just like this is like a bomb hit the building and we have to like pick up the-.

Kutloano Skosana: 31:03

So she's the one in the video, jerry. Yeah, but she was so relaxed, you know she's like oh, yeah, okay, you know I see what can happen here.

Vava Angwenyi: 31:14

I love her because I'm just like the reason I'm also working with her is because we have such similar tastes and vibes and, like she knows how to calm down the hecticness. Like even for me, like she's just like I saw the vision and I'm glad she saw it, because there's so many other architects who would not. They would like nah, there's other architects. I showed the space and they're like huh, okay, but for her she was cool, calm, and then every time we hit a snag, she's really calm, she's like whatever, she's very chill.

Vava Angwenyi: 31:49

So that is how, like, all of this started. Like it was not the anticipated space, but it happened to be the space. And now that, when everything started falling into place, I was like, wow, okay, but now we are actually trying to kick off the second part of actually doing the garden in a more fancy way. And because now that I think proof of concept has happened, it's like the community is now demanding more. They're like, okay, can you do breakfast, can you do Nice, can you do whatever, but all of these things cost chaching.

Kutloano Skosana: 32:23

We're coming. Yeah, I was watching the video yesterday and my husband looks at it and said where's that? I said, yeah, we're going. It's love, Love. You have so much creative expression and I just wonder if you have a theory about how you turned out the way you did? Are there any moments or thoughts that come up that say, yeah, this happened when I was in varsity or whatever, and this is why it turned out the way I am?

Vava Angwenyi: 32:56

To be honest actually people when my own mother surprised the way I turned out. And where does all of this come from? To be honest, I feel like deep down it's from the ancestors Somewhere. It's like I come from a family. I think that's very creative as well, but then, because of how society is expecting you to be, a lot of the creativity suppressed when you're a child, like the moment you're steering towards an artistic thing Because initially, because of all the things that I was really good at, I thought I would be an architect Because I really liked I'm very particular, I like math, I was really good at math, but then I also had this brain like my other side is very artistic, so I always like bottled. With what career can I pick? That will make my parents proud, of course, because one you cannot go say you're like they've spent all that money and you're like I'm gonna go do art Like I wanna be a graphic designer that they're like give me back my money, or so I think.

Vava Angwenyi: 34:05

to be honest, it's something from the ancestors, is what I can give it to, Because I look at both. I look at like we talk about this with my siblings as well Because we wonder, like I've got A sister was really good at music but my parents totally refused for her to follow a musical career, but she later on kind of did that but also is really good at public speaking and things like that. Then my daughter happens to be quite artistic and very scientific. I feel like a lot of the things are like from the past generation, like the ancestors. And then there's the other thing I attributed to is, by virtue of being an entrepreneur, you've got no choice but to be creative.

Vava Angwenyi: 34:53

And you know, when I made the decision to be an entrepreneur, it wasn't an easy decision. I was excommunicated from my family for a while, like my mom and I did not talk for years because she felt it was a waste of resources for me to like go pick a career that she did not invest in, because I did a hard, actual science and finance, you know statistics and finance, whatever and then she just felt like it all got thrown away. And then it's like all the life choices I made were were against how she had raised us, which was you were supposed to get all the good degrees, get a good boyfriend, get married, have kids. And then mine was like you know, it was done differently with not getting married and all of that and all of those things kind of like affected her. But I said, by virtue of being an entrepreneur, and all the pushback I got, not just from my mom or the family, was friends not really understanding what you're doing there, like you went to Canada to get to do this. And then when people say entrepreneurship is lonely, it is extremely lonely. So I had to take time to understand myself.

Vava Angwenyi: 36:06

I think a lot of us are afraid of finding out who we are, but the moment you get comfortable with really like listening to what your your, I think, what we're meant to, what your purpose in life is, a lot of us also don't ask that question. It's like you're moving day to day, just navigating, without thinking, without being intentional. Really I think it's a word, yeah. So when I realized that I was always being pushed in this direction of working with farmers, helping you know community, and I realized that there were gains and nobody else could see the gains other than myself. And you know God or you know the universe. I think that is when I just got really comfortable with all the gifts that you know that I have. And I said when you're an entrepreneur, you also have to learn authenticity. You can't speak with someone else's voice, you can't be a copycat. So I would say ancestors and entrepreneurship, that is what has really like shape to shape to.

Vava Angwenyi: 37:08

Yeah, exactly.

Kutloano Skosana: 37:10

Yeah, you're listening to Shades and Layers and my guest is Vava Anguigny, founder and chief copper holic at Vava specialty coffee. Let's now get into her personal story and, of course, her answers to the Shades and Layers rapid fire. So you've also written a book about your thoughts, which is also a creative expression, and really I love the photography in there. In fact, we're going to do a giveaway for Shades and Layers listeners of the book coffee, milk, blood. And first of all, what? Why the title and what can people find in there?

Vava Angwenyi: 37:48

The title, I would say, was my way of saying that this has not been an easy journey. Like to just be myself in an industry that has been so colonial with its what do I call it? Sops, what is it called?

Kutloano Skosana: 38:03

Yes, those things SOPs.

Vava Angwenyi: 38:06

The way that it's set up. I mean, the industry is not set up for folks like me to succeed. It's not even as a Kenyan entrepreneur, as a woman whose government is always saying they support entrepreneurship. The policies they set up are not for people like me to succeed, it's more for, like the big boys. It's like if you don't have money, what business do you have being in this industry? Like not, because I'll never like have enough seed capital to like trade what I want to trade. Like I want to be able to buy coffee worth maybe a hundred thousand US every week at the auction or, but I don't have access to that. So I'm like the way the system has been set up is not for one young person or a woman to succeed.

Vava Angwenyi: 38:46

When I was getting to this point where I felt, wow, okay, I have to say something about this, but also celebrate how far I've come, I was like, rather than this is my blood, sweat and tears, this has been coffee, because coffee is the thing it's. Coffee has been like the engine, it's like the vessel that has enabled me to do all the things I'm doing with my life and with communities. So I'm celebrating coffee but also sharing more about coffee, milk and blood because one I come from a community where milk and blood are a delicacy, where there's a certain concussion that's made to actually celebrate, and we mix it as mass size to drink and make you stronger.

Vava Angwenyi: 39:26

So I'll say I'm also celebrating a part of my culture where milk that goes with coffee is also a very cultural thing for the mass I people who are also an extremely exploited community in the world of Africa.

Vava Angwenyi: 39:39

Blood, the blood aspect, is all things.

Vava Angwenyi: 39:42

It's a colonial blood, it's a blood from colonialism, it's also the blood it's just I think you'll see it in the open is like the as a woman as well, the shame that we're made to feel when we shed blood, be it when you're having a miscarriage or when you're on your monthly period.

Vava Angwenyi: 39:58

So a lot of I don't know if the word is juxtaposition like I'm, like I'm celebrating but also also the bitterness, like how tough it has to be for one to actually succeed in an industry that is so bloody that it's like someone you know this phrase that people say that America was built off of the backs of slaves. I'm like the coffee industry is built off of slavery and a lot of things that are very colonial which people may not honor to, but I'm like it's a very patriarchal but also very bloody industry where nobody, really very few people really care. It's more about like we have demand for coffee, will buy it at whatever price and we're going to lie that we're doing good with, like a project here and a project there. So that is the title came from that. And then I was like, why not? It's a nice title that may make people pick the book.

Kutloano Skosana: 40:48

Yeah, definitely catchy, title, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so that's why, yeah, that's why would you say it's a bit of a memoir, or do you still have something else to say? And what would you call it?

Vava Angwenyi: 41:01

It's really not a memoir, because there's a lot. I said some things there that are, of course, quite personal, but I still have a lot to say. I was supposed to put out more work, but I would say getting the publishing industry is quite it's hard and it's also. This project did set me back quite a few in terms of like the financial investment, but there's a huge demand for the book still. So I'm still like struggling to meet the demand. We're trying to produce more books. There's a lot more to say, so I'm still I'm going to work on putting out more work when the time is right, but it's a book that I feel has been really well received, especially by folks in the coffee industry, and and it actually gave me more encouragement to keep you know, to keep at it and to keep you know using my voice to sort of get people to ask questions.

Kutloano Skosana: 41:51

Yeah, so what would you call your memoir, and why?

Vava Angwenyi: 41:57

That is, you put him on the spot? Oh yeah, I would. Right now I don't have something off the top of my head and it's certainly I don't know, but it's going to be something better than coffee, milk, blood for sure, and it's. It's going to have all the juicy, juicy, juiciness. I love that.

Kutloano Skosana: 42:19

It's going to be a juicy memoir. Can't wait and you know, let's say you had to turn your life into a movie. Who would you pick for the lead actress? I remember you asked this kind of questions Some people.

Vava Angwenyi: 42:40

I have in mind Vivica Fox.

Kutloano Skosana: 42:42

Oh wonderful, no one's ever said that.

Vava Angwenyi: 42:46

Vivica Fox. Who else do I like in terms of like? I don't know why, she's the one that just popped in my head because I think I just because I've liked her in rules like kill Bill, and I think she can kick ass Right.

Kutloano Skosana: 43:01

That's like you have to.

Vava Angwenyi: 43:07

Yeah, so I'd live it at Vivica Fox. Yeah, cool.

Kutloano Skosana: 43:10

And if you had to organize a dinner and you had the option to invite one famous black woman, living or dead, who would it be?

Vava Angwenyi: 43:20

One famous black woman, I think someone that would be cool to to hang out with Viola Davis oh, cool. Yeah, I like Viola because she's real and I recently just finished her memoir as well. Is it called a memoir, a book? Finding myself? I just like the way she articulated everything about her story, her journey. She didn't, she was just. She just puts it all out there on the table.

Kutloano Skosana: 43:49

It's just real.

Vava Angwenyi: 43:50

It's just real and I'm real. Like I don't. I like like I don't, life is too short for BS and like yeah, to go coating things like so I would definitely be Viola. There's room for someone else, oprah, but Viola would be my person.

Kutloano Skosana: 44:08

Wonderful, wonderful. And that is all from me this time around. If you'd like to learn more about Vava and her work, please visit her website and Instagram page at Vava Coffee, kenya, which are both linked in the show notes, as always. Thank you for listening. Please spread the love and share this episode with a friend. If you haven't already, please head over to your podcast listening app and give us a five star rating and review. Thank you, I'm Putlowna Skosanna-Ritchie, and until next time, please do take good care.