The Closet Runway with Evelina Kauna Nailenge (S7, E6)

Elevate your style and gain cutting-edge insights into the fashion-tech industry with our special guest, Evelina Kauna Nailenge , the trailblazing co-founder of The Closet Runway.

This Cape Town-based luxury fashion rental company seamlessly blends affordability, sustainability, and luxury, serving as a beacon for circular fashion. As we journey through Evelina's entrepreneurial adventures, we delve into the company's unique business model, its commitment to diverse representation, and its innovative approach to styling consultation services.

We discuss challenges like shipping, customer base expansion, and the unique dynamics of e-commerce businesses in Africa. She highlights that it's not simple to navigate the intricacies of shipping logistics while adhering to a sustainability mission. Through a candid chat with Evelina, you'll discover how she and her co-founder, Ange Mahoro, have transformed these challenges into opportunities, and how their complementary skills have driven the business to new heights.

Finally, get ready for a rapid-fire session that illuminates the inspirations behind Evelina’s journey, unveiling the people and businesses that have shaped her path. From Mellody Hobson's influence to the role of the entrepreneurial ecosystem in Cape Town, Evelina's story is rich with surprising twists.

Join us to uncover the colorful threads that make up the fabric of The Closet Runway, and perhaps find a spark of inspiration for your own fashion-tech dreams.

For a transcript of this conversation, CLICK HERE


LINKS AND MENTIONS

Take A Lot – South Africa’s equivalent to Amazon

Superbalist – online fashion and lifestyle market 

Seth Shezi – Art and lifestyle strategist. Travel and Foodie content creator.

Maxhosa  Africa - Founded by designer Laduma Ngxokolo, the brand is known for its distinct patterns and craftsmanship.

Mmuso Maxwell - Johannesburg-based ready-to-wear fashion brand founded by two partners Maxwell Boko and Mmuso Potsane

Thebe Magugu – South African designer and LVMH Prize winner 2019

Maria McCloy – South African fashion & accessories designer and Publicist

Sweep South – think Uber or Lyft for home cleaning, gardening, and odd jobs around the house. A platform that has taken the gig economy to home care. 

Emma Grede – serial entrepreneur, co-founder at Skims with Kim Kardashian and CEO of the inclusive, body positive body clothing brand, Good American. 

Mellody Hobson – first black woman to head up a black-owned mut

Chapters

• 0:02 Fashion Meets Tech
• 8:50 Closet Runway
• 17:54 The Rental Fashion Business Model
• 25:00 South African Fashion and Shipping Challenges
• 29:11 Complementary Skills in Business
• 42:06 Connecting With Melody Hobson and Google Runway

Transcript

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 0:02

Hello and welcome to Shades and Layers. I'm your host, kutuanos Khosana Ritchie, and this week we are in the world of fashion. In this episode, fashion meets tech and we discover a different way African fashionistas are getting access to luxury fashion. The closet runway is a Cape Town based luxury fashion rental company co-founded by two friends, evelina Nylinge and Anj Mawarro. So one of the things that is very often mentioned by entrepreneurs on Shades and Layers is how difficult it can be to hit the sweet spot between luxury, sustainability and affordability, and this is universal for product companies across the African continent.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 0:42

So today we get into this topic with one half of the closet runway duo, evelina. She joins me for a conversation that spends how she met her business partner, anj, how they stumbled on this idea and made it happen. We discuss some obstacles for product companies in Africa, such as logistics. We get insights into e-commerce, the rise of African designers, customer taste inclusion and even getting a quick glimpse into venture capital in Cape Town. Evelina is a finance professional by day and Anj is a fashion model. We'll find out how these two energies come together daily to make women's fashion fantasies a reality. Here is Evelina's story, so you know how would you describe your work personally as one of the partners, and also the deeper meaning you attach to your daily activities.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 1:36

So I, you know I can describe closet runway to be a few things. It's definitely, first and foremost, the labor of love, you know. In addition to that, do you know, it embodies our personal ethos when it comes to clothing and how we like to consume clothing. And then also, as I mean everybody is aware, we've just come out of a pandemic. So during the pandemic, as it obviously was the case around the world, there would be shutdowns in terms of, you know, time spaces where we could be a bit out in public, and then sometimes this is where it required us to be completely shut down and be at home. So, I mean, that went on for a while. It was like, oh, then it's slightly open again, then we could move a bit and then we're back at home. Then we could move a bit and then we're back at home. So, as that was happening and it also so happens that so my business partner she's a very social person, so, as the world will slightly open up a bit, she'd be like, oh, let's go somewhere.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 2:34

And every time we needed to leave the house, all of a sudden we had nothing to wear and I was like, okay, these cannot be, because also, you know, we've had a pandemic for three years. So it's like you go more closet, everything looks a little, maybe something's a little dated, sometimes a little old, but it's actually because it was dated and old, it's just because you haven't worn it in a long time and we've never lived in such a moment. As human beings, we've always kind of a closer good way on a regular. So that was like such a mind mix up for the both of us. And so we're like you know what? It can't be that every time we need to go out, then we quickly, need to quickly rush to the ball to maybe get a new top or get a new skirt or pair of jeans. So like no, this is not sustainable and it's not a good way to leave.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 3:21

Because then what is this? What are we doing? Right? And then, but I so we had the kind of we had the idea in our pockets for a minute, but we never also kind of found the right time to then go ahead and do it and you know, plan the business, launch, get started and whatnot. So then at some point I so say about February last year then we started discussing the idea seriously. And so then we're like, look, you know what, let us see if maybe we can do this. And so February, march, april, we discussed by May we were really we were setting up meetings and hitting the ground and putting platforms in places to essentially launch the business and in come December, mid-december last year, we launched.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 4:06

Yeah, that's wonderful. It moved quite quickly, it seems. So, from idea to actual implementation was like what a year, or just short of a year.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 4:17

Yeah. So implementation I would say short of a year. But the idea in itself is essentially when the idea really hit me for the first time was when I was in university. So I was a law student and I was stressed and had a work load. So what I would do I had this ritual that I would do in the morning when I woke up. So this was in the days of Blackberry.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 4:48

So I used to read the New York Times in the morning when I wake up and I know it doesn't sound quite sound like a way to relax, but it does relax me just because I read a bit and I like to consume news and I read really on a broad spectrum, from culture to serious stuff.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 5:07

So I would you know, on a daily check in with the New York Times and all the other publications. I'll check in with the New Yorkers, the Time magazine and so on and so forth. So the New York Times was my go-to morning thing to read. So I would allocate half an hour to 45 minutes just to see what's happening in the world. I would read the lifestyle section, the hard news, all the other things that are going on in the world. So the one time I came across this story about these two I think they were doing the MBAs at the time Harvard students that they met as friends while they were at Harvard Business School and so they came up with this idea to build an e-commerce rental platform and I thought, oh my God, that is so smart. But definitely at that time we were not really advanced in such a way that perhaps it wasn't the right time for us in the side of the world say for the world.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 6:13

I could already kind of like picture in my head about how that's going to work. So then they spoke about, they thought of this idea, and then they set up a meeting with one of New York's designers, donna Karan, and they were like, oh, she was kind enough, she responded, and they were obviously shocked.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 6:32

So then of, course Harvard will open a lot of doors, but yeah, I hope.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 6:37

They went to Manhattan to go and speak to Donna Karan and about this idea, and she was like, ladies, I don't know, I can't do that, because then that would I think she said something to the effect of that would devalue her clothes or something of the sort. So then in that moment, as I was reading the story, then I was like, okay, what would it take to? Probably because it's not like they were giving their entire IP plan away, they were just the idea, essentially on what that could look like and what they had done so far and how the business came about. But then I was like, okay, so for a business like this, what would you need? You probably need some sort of unique technology, platforms, you need logistics. So you need quick courier, you need this, you need that.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 7:22

And I was like, no, it wasn't the time and also as a student, I didn't, even I didn't have the money, the means to open up that kind of business. I was still trying to get to two degrees. So then I was like, okay, fine, I kept it at the back of my head and then so, essentially, when COVID came about, so then I started to think about it again. So the idea is that we've been there for a very long time.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 7:46

Yeah, it's amazing how these things stay incubated right.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 7:51

Yeah, amazingly so. So then I was like, no, I had a lot of time to also think through it over the years. And so what I've done over the years was I've always tracked e-commerce. When I see an e-commerce story, I'll read about it. I mean, I remember Also in South Africa, e-com is kind of started picking up. You know, when we had the likes of Take-A-Lot come into the scene Remember also reading up on Take-A-Lot when it was fairly new and the founders and that you know, and I was like, oh okay, it's okay. So this is how this is going to work, this is what this means. So I've had enough time to think about the idea, but definitely, as you said before, in terms of implementation, it did take under a year for us.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 8:32

But you guys occupy a very interesting space. You've got this E-Com aside, so you ship all over South Africa and then you also have a physical space in Cape Town. So can you tell me where's your biggest touch points?

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 8:47

Yeah, so good question. It's essentially when we started initially. When we started, we thought, because we based in Cape Town, a lot of our renters are going to be perhaps Cape Town based only, but obviously also we like to think of our business as a three-subsection business. So we've got the physical space, as you've said, we've got the website and then obviously social media. So because and due to social media, the world is obviously spread nationwide.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 9:20

So what we initially thought was going to happen, we thought, okay, fine, okay, people are going to be working in and for the most part, and probably those are going to be the most renters, but no, people do work in. They work in for fittings. They come in and they ask us what is that we do? And they get to find out about us. But also social media obviously is doing what is meant to do it the MMS from wherever in South Africa, and they get in touch and they inquire, they direct them to the website and then they rent, they do their payments and then, yeah, so essentially, at this point, a lot of our renters are coming out of Houtang and the Western Cape, so out of Johannesburg mainly, and maybe the Western Cape. Yeah.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 10:07

Yeah, I actually was intrigued to see that you are in Cape Town. I was like, oh okay, I would think Johannesburg would be the first you know logical place to set up shop. But clearly it also makes sense in Cape Town.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 10:21

Yeah, so it also happens that I have a full-time job as well. So at this point, runway is what you would say nowadays, a side hustle, although we do take it seriously, it almost does feel like a full-time job. So my full-time job is that I work in finance. My job is based in Cape.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 10:38

Town, why I thought Johannesburg also was because of the designers, and a lot of them are based in Johannesburg. So how has it worked for you to do these partnerships and get people to trust you with their clothing labels?

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 10:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah, no. That's another good question. So when I used to read up on e-commerce, it was always so. If I would look at, like the local publications whether it be Venture Burn or all this other medicine or bizcom the story was always, when they talk about e-commerce and maybe the future of taking South Africa, they would always say, oh, cape Town is where it's at, oh, cape Town is the Silicon Valley of South Africa. So for that reason it's also in a way, it got embedded into my head in a way to say, oh, yeah, if you're running a tech company, you go to Cape Town. And also I look at the likes of Beats, swip South or other sort of like the financial ones, whether it be Yoko and whatnot, they were all launched in Cape Town, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. And even normally when there's like tech conferences and stuff, they also happen in Cape Town predominantly. So then I was like maybe Closer to the Drummers should also be launched in Cape Town. A lot launched in Cape Town. You know, superbalist. Right.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 11:53

So then I was like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So then I was like, no, maybe, maybe that's what we should do with Closer to the Drummers. So really that was where I also got that idea. Oh, wow, okay, yeah, yeah.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 12:06

That one is very tight. And of course I was very aware that those other companies you know sometimes they launch and because the intense of size they're so big that you know they would have like entire desks, you know, dedicated to developers and that sort of thing, and that's definitely not our case. But then I just thought, oh, it would be nice, why not Right?

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 12:27

You guys have done it. You get access to all this tech talent absolutely.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 12:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and also just as like, maybe when they will get VC. There is also a VC culture in Cape Town also. It's small, but it exists. Right. So I was like oh, let's do the thing, then maybe we can have that story as well, right? Right.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 12:47

Yeah, so then that's where we started and then, yeah, so that's how, then we also will launch in Cape Town and then so, in terms of the designers and in terms of how that has been and how those relationships have been going and are going, so, although the designers are based in Joe Burke that's correct We've been lucky to also meet them in South Africa, I mean in Cape Town. Just before, a week before we launched in December, a very dear friend of ours his name is Seth Scheerzi. He invited us to this event. That was happening. It was organized by Twine Magazine, another Cape Town based magazine, and it was happening at Mount Nelson and it was basically a showcase of local designers that came together and they were showcasing their designs. So on this one particular day we happened to have gone. They were showing Matosa designs, so obviously the creative director, owner and creative director of Matosa Laduma himself also happened to be there.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 13:50

And then there were another the second day when they were showing designs under Musa Maxwell and, of course, also the two creative duos brilliant minds behind the brand were also present. So in both instances we also got time to get face time with the designers and we absolutely told them about our concept and they were very happy, very happy, very supportive, very encouraging and initially, from the get go, they were like this is brilliant, because we're very aware that our designs cost us much. This is our price point, but ideally we'd like a lot more people to be able to wear our clothes. So what you're doing and what you're going to do is actually going to provide that opportunity for a lot more people to wear our designs at a fraction of the price. So they were like brilliant and yeah, so they're very supportive.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 14:42

And I remember on that day, laduma was even like look, let me give you guys the number to at the time. I think it was one of his factories or Atelier in the Eastern Cape and it's like if you're ever looking for a piece and you're unable to find it and you contact the people on this number, they should be able to help you. So very, very helpful. And also, having said that we're definitely planning also to stock more local designers. We've got now, at the moment, we've definitely gotten Tepe Magugo, we've gotten Maclosa. We're hoping to definitely increase that, because they're renting so well.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 15:18

They're really, really renting so well, yeah, so do you own the pieces yourselves or, you know, do you have some kind of like you know partnership with the designers?

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 15:28

Oh, yes, yes, yes, no. So I don't know if that makes us fortunate or but we own all the pieces, so we bought everything full price. Yeah.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 15:40

And you know how do you deal with, let's say, outfit damage. Have you had any kind of incidents of that nature? Because anything can happen in shipping, anything can happen at an event. Yeah, absolutely.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 15:52

So we haven't had, we've been lucky thus far, we haven't had incidents yet, but it's also but of course it's. You know, we kind of it is something that we think about, that one day it could happen.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 16:08

Yeah, I'm just wondering if there's some kind of insurance for this kind of business, seeing as it's so new, right? Yes, there is.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 16:19

So that was one of the very first things we had to look into, right? And so then, when we approached a couple of insurance companies and we're telling them the concept, and they're like, yeah, I know we could definitely ensure you guys. And we were like, wait, but do you guys understand what it is that we're saying, you know? They're like yeah, absolutely. And then, as we obviously, as they send us information and look more into insurance, we're like, oh my goodness, insurance has really changed beyond what we knew it as low-income.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 16:49

Other properties and whatnot, and there's so many range in the insurance business. So definitely our clothing items are fully insured.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 16:59

Yeah. So this is Shades and Layers, and my guest today is Evelina Nylinge, co-founder of the Closet runway, an inclusive luxury clothing rental business in Cape Town, south Africa. Up next, we discuss how they plan to remain competitive in the market. Evelina also shares that. While your big name luxury fashion brands are always desirable, there's also a growing interest in designers from all over the African continent. We also get deeper into how they developed and tested their business idea. What's going to be a moat? You know, as this type of business gets popular, you know what's your unique selling point. I would say.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 17:40

I think when I look at Closet runway, I would say our unique selling point is definitely, I think, our buying power. I would say number one our buying power.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 17:51

I think that holds us in very good stead. Another thing that I could mention is the range. We really do have the range, if I can say so myself, and so sometimes when you're buying something, as we were doing during the buying process we were like, okay, we think we've done a good job. And then we had the launch, and so we started buying in August and had the launch in December. So we've served with the clothes for quite a bit before we had the official launch, and so at that point my business partner and I were slightly tired of the clothes in a way, not that just because, you know, we've seen it so much and we're like, oh, okay.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 18:33

Yeah, fashion people yes.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 18:35

Then, when we launched in the people's of the clothes the first time, the reaction we're like no, we did good. We did good. So we recently brought in. So we recently did another second round of buying which is very close to the initial investment that we did for the first buying to increase our plus size clothing range and this was strictly for plus size bodies. And so that's what we did and we really like, we went there, we, you know, we bought again and again when we brought in the clothes and we invited a few people to come in and have a look and, you know, give their opinion and it's been amazing.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 19:16

They love the colors, they love the ranges, the materials, the tone. And also we do think about that a lot. We think about when we're buying something. We think about how the color of the garments translates to the skin tone, to the skin tones of people. So you know, if you're like, okay, we've got this specific dress, it's in this color, this would look great for people of the stone and that and that, so we think about really across the spectrum. We think about tones and it doesn't mean and also what would look good on a variety of tones, because essentially, what the problem that we're trying to solve is to make this dress is available to be worn by as many people as possible and do some people come back for the same item more than once.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 20:03

Sometimes it hasn't happened as often, but it can happen sometimes so say, somebody might rent something, an item, because they're going somewhere but, then they could come back and say okay, have a shoot, I need that particular something again for a photo shoot, Right? So yes, that tends to happen, yeah, fantastic.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 20:26

So I'm hearing sustainability, circular fashion. I mean, what are the other motivations that you've observed that lead people to want to hire a luxury clothing?

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 20:37

So for us, starting with thought, okay, sustainability is low-fashions, circular fashion, and then we also realize that it's also the designers. So there's the specific pieces of clothing and the designers behind them. Some people are interested in African designers so, and so we've got we've definitely got the local ones, so the likes of the Tepe Magoo and my closer, but we've also got in the likes of Andrea Yama Shiza, nigerian designer, and we're looking at other designers as well Dongoro and so on and so forth, from Senegal, in the lights, obviously, also have our Ion Lisa Filawairo from Nigeria. So some people specifically are like no, they come in specifically for that. And also, depending also where people are going, there is definitely a sort of like consumer want that you know if someone is going to a wedding.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 21:34

So we have this one particular, my closest skirt. That skirt has traveled, when all of us combine. It's been to France, it's been to Johannesburg, all parts of Johannesburg. Many times it's been to another European country. Was it Italy recently? So people are like oh, no, I have a wedding. There's a wedding that is happening. A friend is getting married. I'm invited to a wedding, but this wedding is happening, you know, in France or in Italy or whatever, but I need that peace. Different ones it can be designers, designer driven, it can be sustainability driven, can be also just price point as well. So yeah, prices also. It's just like you know sometimes some of these dresses retail at it. You know quite high price ranges, over 10%. Yeah.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 22:30

Yeah, and if someone can rent that at a thousand rent, they would definitely rather opt for that. And also because if you're buying it at that many thousands, really, how many times are you really going to wear it? So they really find our business model you know our way of business, you know the way we provide service is something that is very essential and it solves a problem for them. And also then there's obviously other people that maybe just aren't really necessarily a fan of shopping. In a way they're not traditional shopping. So they're very happy to come in, pull a few staff. There isn't. You know, the space is. Essentially, when you're in that space fitting in, you are kind of it's just yourself and the person who's assisting you in our showroom, and then that's it, and so you do that. You know they like the quietness, they like the fact that they don't have to go to the mall. So it's a variety, it's a variety of things.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 23:25

Yeah, oh, that's lovely. So you offer styling consultation as well.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 23:30

Yeah, definitely, that's definitely something we offer, although we haven't advertised as much, which you should. We should do more of that. But definitely if because essentially, even if that isn't the intention, people tend to you know if you're trying on something, there's people around you you'd ask for an opinion. How does this look? You know how do so, you know we would, then we would weigh in, give advice.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 23:53

Yeah, even recommend, sometimes also people. Specifically, they would go to the website or go on social media and pick a specific outfit to come and try on that specific outfit. We would then look at a person and one of the things we do is we would commonly do is say no, but I think there's this other three dresses that would look great on you, you know. And then it ends up being a full on trial and session and you know they take pictures of themselves and videos and yeah, yeah that's lovely that's.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 24:21

I love that. I really love this rental concept. The one thing that I also wanted to ask you was you know you had this idea, it's been sitting with you, you read about it, etc. But then you know, in order for you to go full in on the concept, you need to test it. So who did you use as your test subjects? How did you go about it and say, okay, fine, we definitely have potential here and we should just go for it?

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 24:45

Maybe not so much as test subjects, because, also, we were really convinced as we were discussing it. We just was like no, I think this is going to work because we are our customers, our problems are our customers' problems. And another thing also we both are very much interested in fashion. There's many things that we love, but they're also not available locally. It's definitely pricier if we try and build those collections for ourselves. It's pricy, but if we could do this at a scale in which it's a community of us and not just the two of us, I think it can be that we're the only one sitting with this problem In South Africa, although we do have access to international brands.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 25:35

We think of the local South African fashion landscape as this upper luxury, which is your upper luxury brands. And then you've got the retailers, the local retailers. There's never the middle part. We sit on that the higher luxury European brands and then the local retailers, and then that's it and we're like no, no, no, it should be well-made clothes, good quality, that could be priced fairly, that we could make available to a community of us.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 26:12

That's interesting. I had a conversation with Maria McClure about that and retail is always a challenge.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 26:19

So then that was where we were like no, no, no. We know between the two of us that there's many brands in the world that exist that fit in that middle but that we don't have access to in South Africa. But we could make them available through our business model in our service offering and have that as essentially what closed runway is.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 26:40

That's exciting, so VC manifest. So the other question I had for you was about shipping, which is, of course, a big challenge for many e-commerce entities. I'm assuming that things have become easier since COVID because we see a lot of online retail, so how have you navigated that space for yourselves?

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 27:03

Yeah, shipping is definitely one of the bigger ones, but it's also, I think, that we actually still trying to navigate. So we wish it were different. We wish it were quicker, smoother, faster in a way that hasn't been our experience. Definitely some pain, some pains there, but I think what saves, in a way, what makes it a little bit better for us, is that we're not selling the dresses right. So we tend to sit on an inventory for a while longer than as a book.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 27:38

Yeah, you don't need to be shipping all the time we do not.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 27:43

Our businesses don't require quick turnaround in terms of how we replace our inventory, so that is really the good thing that is keeping us sane where shipping is concerned. We're hoping that one day we'd wake up and it would be much quicker for us to wait for the patient.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 28:01

So let me ask you about you and Anj. How did you meet?

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 28:05

So Anj and I met in Cape Town. This was 2020. So this was when you had just really gotten over the first, the first bout of COVID, of the pandemic in a way, and things were kind of starting to come down. And then things were kind of services were opening up for the first time and we found ourselves both in need of accommodation here again in Cape Town, and we met through our estate agent.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 28:30

So she was like, yeah, so Anj met her first and then I met her second, and then so when I met her and we got chatting, she had time a bit, so we ended up grabbing coffee and she was like I met somebody earlier this morning and I think you two would be good friends, which was very confusing because I was like, wait, wait for me. And so then she was like, yeah, there's this other lady that I just had a meeting, which is also looking for an apartment, and I think you two would be good friends. So then she went to the trouble of setting us up Within three days. She made it happen, she got us to come here, we met and we hit it off.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 29:11

She's a matchmaker, great she should have been in making a nod in real estate.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 29:18

You know that's fantastic, and you know how did you know that you guys would make good partners in a business? Because being friends is very different from being business partners.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 29:30

Yes, no, you're right. I might not necessarily have the right answer for you, but what had happened with the real estate? We got separate places, accommodation, and then, a year later, we moved in together.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 29:43

Okay.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 29:44

Yeah, and that then just went brilliantly. We just, we get along and we don't. Should I be saying this? Probably what? We don't disagree. We don't disagree. We tend to kind of like I gravitated towards the same things and we somehow also gel in such a way that if I have an idea and she weighs in, it's never necessarily a no. We have a way of finding things work, that's great yeah.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 30:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like a good formula that just kind of came together unexpectedly, but it works so well, yeah, so, and I think also, obviously, given that we run an e-commerce startup which is essentially also a lifestyle business and we're both interested in we're both deeply interested in lifestyle, so that definitely also helps things along, and I think we're also very good at focusing and playing to our strengths.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 30:50

Yeah, I was gonna ask, like you know, how do you compliment each other in the business?

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 30:54

Yes, so, yeah, so we definitely good at that. I bring that kind of like corporate experience and you know a way in which we can keep things formal in a way, run the business in a very formal way. But also, a business of this nature needs many things just beyond that. It needs also an intense social aspect, right, intense network aspect. Yeah, you know, yeah, you need to be if you're in a room, you need to be able to work the room and do that, and she is very good in all of those things that I just mentioned, right, right, so, but then comes to the business itself, be it the buying and looking at the clothes and figuring out the social medias and whatever, but then that we do together, then we, you know, we both then come in in that way and so bringing also all those other differences that I've just mentioned before in that and meshing those Right.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 32:01

This is Shades and Layers. We have mentioned a lot of designers and fashion labels so far, and you can find links and mentions included in the show notes. Let's get back into our conversation with Evelina Nylinger, co-founder of the Closet Runway, as she tells us about the people and businesses she admires, as well as her personal story. We will then wrap the episode up with the Shades and Layers rapid fire. So you of course got inspired by reading broadly. And then the entrepreneurial path. Is it something that just came to you later in life or were there signs earlier on that you know this is a path that you would eventually pursue?

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 32:44

It's always been on my mind, but I was also always very careful to, like you know, think about. Once I find myself in a position where I feel like I'm ready and that I'm able to do this, what sort of business is going to be? Because, you know, trust me, I've thought of many things. Yeah, I've thought of many things, and I continue to think about many other things, but this was also one of my, my, my, my, my loves and the ones that I'm deeply interested in and that sort of business that I like. So it made sense from from that perspective, yeah, so so, yeah, definitely sort of many other things, still thinking of many other things. Yeah.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 33:23

Just in this phase of my life. This was one of the the ones that I was like, okay, I'm ready, now let's do this.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 33:29

Right and which role models stand out to you right now in the e-commerce space? You know, who do you admire?

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 33:37

Ah, you're so many, so many role models, obviously, as in you know, humans, but also, just sometimes, even business models that business models change and a company can start off. It can start as a startup and then essentially it changes into something, it malls into something else that is bigger, and that is also because then they will tweak the business model and turn it into, flip it around and it turns into an amazing thing. So role models in terms in the e-commerce space, I would say at the top of my head currently Sweep South, oh okay so they're clean.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 34:11

Yeah, yeah, sweep South. I'm a big fan the what they've managed to do and I think also, just you know, as with anywhere in the world, but I think you also you know this being South Africa you know domestic work is really one of those backbone of like the work force. Yeah, so the way in which they've managed to you know also kind of provide work. It was always like you'd have a domestic worker who either comes in you know this many times a week or maybe lives with you or. But the fact that they've managed to change that and now, at the tip of your finger, you could have someone either come once a week or just when you need them. If you're in town for a week, you you can get someone to come and come and help you with your cleaning. I think you're a Sweeps Out big fan Great Locally. Another one, I think Superblist. Also in the way in which they started. I like that also.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 35:08

One of the other ones that I recently saw come up. I've been watching them in terms of what they're trying to do. I think it's going to turn into something very exciting. It's also one of those ways I'm like okay, this is going to be interesting to see what it turns into In the emotional landscape. There's some individuals that I really like. Emma Gede is one of the founding partners of Schemes, which obviously, as we know.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 35:42

Kim is behind Emma Gede, I think, and also with her 15% pledge. I'm happy about that that's brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. If I was to bring it back to locally, I think COVID in a way the pandemic has helped the local e-commerce landscape in such a way that our local supermarkets went e-commerce. That was such a thing that, because we're asking for the longest time and it's never happening I don't know if you're not listening or maybe you've never got back to the book, but that feedback never. Then COVID came in.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 36:23

Likes of checkers with the 60 app, how they managed to just turn it around Quick and fast. Obviously dash via Woolworths before they close down Dash and put it on there, and then they obviously made the whole Woolworths e-commerce. Also you can pay food app. I think that also changed e-commerce in such a way, in a very positive way. Actually, locally, I wish there was no going back. There's no going back now. There's no going back. People rely on them now for people now schedule their groceries and that sort of thing.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 36:59

You don't have to schedule your time Trying to think internationally. Of course, always the number one, Amazon. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 37:14

I'm actually based in the city where they started. I'm in Seattle. Everything is Amazon here. It's actually very wrong. I must say that sometimes you just order single items and they arrive and you have to be very, very disciplined, because it's too easy, way too easy. There's no friction.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 37:36

Absolutely. I think that is Locally. I know some of the things that we are frustrated in, sometimes the delay, because obviously locally we have that kind of lag in terms of when you. Also then they would say you would order something, the payment would go through, then you then, on the day of delivery, you would sit at home the whole day because they say, oh, deliver between 8am and 5pm, the whole day sitting at home waiting for a parcel tour. So that's definitely one of those things that because if it was quicker and if they then the technology advances in such a way that they bring in the technology that tells you you will get it at this hour, and if it was more time, people would definitely spend more.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 38:24

But it's something that we do. They still are lag. I think I appreciate that lag because I mean it's not always good for business. But let me tell you, from a consumer side it's like, oh no, this is just, it's too convenient. It's actually quite disturbing to be honest, absolutely On to something.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 38:45

Yeah, so I think also another interesting fact, just with Closet Runway and eCommerce, and you know so, when we buy our clothes, there was a period last year where we were in London Fandasource in London so we also use that opportunity to bring back us a few dresses, and it was again so that turn around. We were there for just maybe like a little over a week or so, and you know you'd buy a whole dress today and they were like no, in two days, if it's within, if it was in London, really in two to three days, you have it. They had 24 hour turnarounds there and I was really amazed at that. I was like, oh my goodness.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 39:26

Yeah, I mean, if you have to think about your carbon footprint and all of that, it's just like, okay, come on guys, maybe it shouldn't be this easy, I know.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 39:37

But I think also sitting on the other fence of eCommerce, you're like oh, this is efficient, Absolutely absolutely yeah.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 39:45

I mean, I think there are two very different needs being serviced by this whole setup, the eCommerce setup. But I wonder if there is a middle ground somewhere. Maybe not, I don't know.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 39:59

Absolutely no, I definitely agree with what you're saying. And yeah, I mean, I definitely agree with what you're saying yeah. I think, yeah, I spoke more on the local ones, but I think I'm happy with that. Yeah.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 40:10

Oh, that's perfect. That's perfect. So a couple more things. I usually have a rapid fire for the guests, and the first question I asked is if you were to write a memoir, what would it be called and why? Oh my gosh.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 40:25

I feel like I am too. I think I'm too young to be thinking about memoir titles because, I don't know, I think I'm going to leave a long time. But if I was to okay rapid fire, I would call it. She went and did it. Yes, Good. That's nice and quick.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 40:43

I love it.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 40:45

And that's because I think that's because I think I went and did it and I am doing it yeah.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 40:53

I think for that reason, and if someday you had to turn your life into a movie, who would you pick for the lead actress?

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 41:02

Near long.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 41:03

Hey, oh, I love her. Yeah, she hasn't been mentioned much in the rapid fire, so that's great. She's great here. And if you had to invite a famous black woman for dinner tonight, who would it be? Living or dead?

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 41:21

Famous, maybe not. So there's this. Maybe not famous, I have a name. This lady her name is Melody Hobson. She's an investment professional from the United States. She owns an investment company called Aerial Investments and she's also the chairman of the board of Starbucks, I believe Does amazing work. Her track record speaks for itself Great business woman. It's definitely for that reason that I would want to just have those conversations and be like and I think also obviously because I work in investments, but I definitely think for the fact that she does a lot of advisory work for business in the world of business and that yeah that's wonderful.

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 42:06

Melody Hobson. I think she's my person.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 42:10

Fantastic, I love that. I love that. And where can people find you if they want to work with you or just get a taste of the work that you do?

Evelina Kauna Nailenge: 42:20

No, so definitely contact us at Google Closet Runway. Our details are online. Also, just send us a DM.

Kutloano Skosana Ricci: 42:27

five closer runway on Instagram and that is all from me this time around. Thank you for listening. Thanks to Evelina for sharing her story and if you enjoyed the episode, please go ahead and share it with someone. Please also remember to give the show a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts, spotify or wherever you listen. Five stars would be great. Thank you, I'm Luanus Kusana Ritchie, and until next time. Please do take good care.